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Alan Moore on Magic

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Alan Moore on Magic

Post by David on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:35 pm


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Re: Alan Moore on Magic

Post by VixensVengeance on Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:15 pm

Yea so ineresting. Do you agree or disagree? What are your views on magic?

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Re: Alan Moore on Magic

Post by Sifu on Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:28 pm

Alan Moore brings a lot of important things to light.
 
I really enjoyed this video; three points stand out to me. I have also seen a tendency of self-medication against the true self by deadening those thoughts and emotions which tend to chase one down as soon as movement ceases. I agree and think that instead one must rise above these things and use them for their true purpose, as tools for evolution. Pain, anger, regret, sorrow, hatred, loss, and the plethora of other human responses, they all point towards the direction of bettering oneself if they can be faced and shaped to respond to our true will.
 
The second point was the description of writers and artists as modern Shaman, and the power that is held by for example good writers. In earning my degree in English, I learned early on that literature has the power to change and shape the world. It can be a window and a mirror - a window into other perspectives and dimensions of humanity, and a mirror into the self. I enjoy writing in my free time, but this really drives home that if any true magic is to be cast by the work then it must be approached in the proper mindset of giving the audience what they need to experience a change of consciousness.
 
The third point was the search for the True Self, the Great Work of the Alchemists, I agree that to realize the Self is a great burden and a responsibility, it isn’t easy to see into ones own self to any level of depth and face each vice and flaw head on. Once glimpses of the self are obtained it is impossible to truly turn back, this seems to destroy many people. However, those that can summon their inner strength and transmute the fault lines, the shatterpoints, of the personality into something great and exceed the inertia will undoubtedly succeed.
 
Franz Bardon has an excellent exercise for self discovery called Soul Mirrors, the creation of a positive and a negative soul mirror for the virtues and faults in the personality. One must strive to find at least 100 traits for each mirror, preferably more so that each shade of the Self can be examined. Then the traits are separated by Elemental attributes, and finally the transmutation process begins to gradually obtain mastery of the Self.
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Re: Alan Moore on Magic

Post by VixensVengeance on Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:34 pm

I like your points. I find it particularly  interesting that he talks about the contrast of what I would define as Jedi vs Sith in the idea that Jedi separate themselves from emotion and Sith embrace that emotion.  I asked David to comment on his thread a bit ago but it seems hes afraid of the question.

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Re: Alan Moore on Magic

Post by Micheal on Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:45 am

Jedi do not separate themselves from emotion.  They experience the entire array of emotions as they are needed to affect outcomes the Jedi deems proper.  The difference is the desired outcome.

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Re: Alan Moore on Magic

Post by David on Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:59 am

I am in position to help others sort out their beliefs, so I take great pains to avoid my personal dogma.

I agree that magic is communication. Much after that was Moore's bias as a writer and love for art. Granted he presents a convincing system, but it is constructed of his personal bullshit that he must spend time trying to see beyond.

Me? I'm already there. Worse, I've got my own bullshit to work through. Worse than that? His bullshit is accepted as valid and people's agreement encourages him to cultivate it further. Then, you ask for a dollop of mine on top?

I give it only under the understanding of what it is: distraction at best, and a contagion at worst.

While magic is communication, communication is a much broader term than the simple transference of information. It includes all screwy situations where causality is seemingly hijacked and action at a distance is performed.

The key word therein is "seemingly", for causality is inescapable. Thus, (for me) magic is simply something of unidentified cause.

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Re: Alan Moore on Magic

Post by VixensVengeance on Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:24 am

Micheal wrote:Jedi do not separate themselves from emotion.  They experience the entire array of emotions as they are needed to affect outcomes the Jedi deems proper.  The difference is the desired outcome.

I didnt mean to imply Jedi didnt experience them, only that they separate themselves from them. They view them as something separate from the self, a beast of sorts that needs to be restrained and controlled, shaped and channeled. Is that not accurate?
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Re: Alan Moore on Magic

Post by Micheal on Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:51 am

30% accurate in the fact that you state to be controlled and channeled.

Can't separate emotions from the self... anyone who says they can are first of all liars, second if they were able to do it... would be excessively boring.

Take for example fear.  I remember feeling it last when I was an orange belt and confronted with a blue belt twice my size.
Instead of avoiding the guy, I embraced the challenge of how to deal with someone bigger... now I look forward to those challenges... but I am a big guy so sadly they are few and far between.

About 6 months ago I had a gentleman come in with his daughter thinking to sign her up.  I wanted the guy to join because he was huge!

Sadly he never did... cause I knew once I trained him he would be someone who could readily beat me... and I really looked forward to the challenge.  But I can't say I feared him.  I knew he could beat me physical to physical so getting his knowledge up would then place him as someone who would challenge me.  Then got sad when he never returned.  My wife and I joke this is the closest I have ever gotten to a bromance.

But taking the emotions as they come, analyze them, then changing them to something which can benefit the path I am following is Jedi. 

Doing this, I can be what I need to be for the given situation. 
The funeral today, I intend to make people laugh and it will probably be at my expense for it can only help.  They do not need my grief, they need my strength of character so will get that.  They do not need to console me, but need consoling theirselves.

Finally, they need their dad respected and know he was appreciated.  That one is easy to give.

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Re: Alan Moore on Magic

Post by Sifu on Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:10 pm

David wrote:I am in position to help others sort out their beliefs, so I take great pains to avoid my personal dogma.

I agree that magic is communication. Much after that was Moore's bias as a writer and love for art. Granted he presents a convincing system, but it is constructed of his personal bullshit that he must spend time trying to see beyond.

Me? I'm already there. Worse, I've got my own bullshit to work through. Worse than that? His bullshit is accepted as valid and people's agreement encourages him to cultivate it further. Then, you ask for a dollop of mine on top?

I give it only under the understanding of what it is: distraction at best, and a contagion at worst.

While magic is communication, communication is a much broader term than the simple transference of information. It includes all screwy situations where causality is seemingly hijacked and action at a distance is performed.

The key word therein is "seemingly", for causality is inescapable. Thus, (for me) magic is simply something of unidentified cause.

I think that magic can be defined in many various ways by individual expression. A paradigm of communication could see one being a reality programmer utilizing evocation, magical alphabets, and incantations. While a paradigm of energy manipulation can see one as being more akin to an engineer of cosmic forces. I utilize a few different paradigms depending on my mood, and as a writer myself I can see how some of what he says can be useful. I like the approach of magic as an individual pursuit of creativity.

The discussion of the True Self is what interests me most of all though, introspection is so important. I have a lot of bullshit to sort through myself, even shit can be useful as fertilizer for something better though.
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Re: Alan Moore on Magic

Post by David on Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:34 pm

Whatever cranks your tractor, Sifu. All of it can be useful at some time or another. I just don't carry baggage until I need it.

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Re: Alan Moore on Magic

Post by Sifu on Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:07 pm

I do want my tractor running as efficiently as possible though.
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Re: Alan Moore on Magic

Post by David on Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:57 am

Therein lies the difference between discipline and learning, the need for repetitive (ritualized) fundamentals, the ability to focus intensely, and again - the ability to dismiss the irrelevant.

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Re: Alan Moore on Magic

Post by VixensVengeance on Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:47 pm

Im curious why you categorized this as entertainment and not spirituality?

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Re: Alan Moore on Magic

Post by VixensVengeance on Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:09 pm

And here is my problem with you David, you demand openness from me but are unwilling to offer that same thing to me. A true sith should be strong enough to offer this but you are not. As a result I will take my leave.

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