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Thoughts and Prayers

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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by Mortox on Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:50 pm

VixensVengeance wrote:
Honestly I am not trying to debate you. I really just want you to acknowledge your hypocracy.

I advise you to find something more productive to do.

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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by David on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:50 am

VixensVengeance wrote:I really just want you to acknowledge your hypocracy.

I.E. convert, help, influence. You are asking a builder to admit that 99.9% to the N'th degree that the material from which they build is made of nothing. Clearly, this is within our domain as we have no problem admitting that hypocrisy is inherent to the human condition and thus inescapable.

Let there be lies. Let there be self deceivers. Let people toil for illusory labors of love. Hell, add to their bullshit when it's entertaining to do so. Adopt some if you dare.

The missing concept here is that there is no "right" way, no absolute destination, no perfect objective. The meaning of life is what the living bring to it, and - if you're smart enough - to find the beauty and strength that evolve within its many fucked up forms.

I feel obligated to address failure here. I have been speaking about success in general terms. Success for the individual is definite. It has an absolute direction, a specific purpose. So while there is no way to fail in life as according to humanity, there are many ways to fail as an individual who has specific ambitions.


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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by VixensVengeance on Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:58 pm

David wrote:
I feel obligated to address failure here. I have been speaking about success in general terms. Success for the individual is definite. It has an absolute direction, a specific purpose. So while there is no way to fail in life as according to humanity, there are many ways to fail as an individual who has specific ambitions.


I think I would disagree with this. Success is never definite - i.e. defined as an absolute standard. There is no universal definition of success either from the individual or for humanity in general. Success is subjective based on perception. What I define as success may not be the case for you and visa versa. As well, my definition of success can and does evolve based on my insight as I travel my path. For any of us to unconditionally submit ourselves to another's standard as an absolute only serves to demean our own value.

However there are specific instances when we all do this. Anytime we take a college course or accept tutelage from a mentor or undertake a training program. These are explicit areas where we relinquish our autonomy and offer trust to another in pursuit of a specific personal goal. Its the same for all of us. We allow ourselves to be open but just because we evoke this vulnerability does not mean its also prudent to ever allow a sideways swipe from the dark that otherwise challenges our sovereignty in demeaning ways.
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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by David on Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:01 pm

Humanity, which is larger than the culture and time to which the individual lives, has the aim of sustaining life, expanding, evolving, etc. Even when individuals or even societies veer off into tangents of failure that ends in death, life itself still succeeds in eliminating one specific direction of growth. Thus, you cannot human incorrectly. It's impossible by these parameters.

Within the quote, "specific ambitions" means exactly as you say - success is determined by the Individual. However, you are incorrect in saying that subjectivity is detrimental to success being definite, with absolute direction (note this has nothing to do with standards).

As I was speaking to you in the quote, and do keep in mind my latest prodding in your workshop, the distinction was relevant. I will clarify these two concepts.

1)Success for the individual is definite. Definite means the opposite of indefinite. Thus, defined, exact, measurable, quantifiable. How much progress counts as success? It's up to the individual. However, the Individual needs to be damn sure about what it will take to make them happy or risk chasing and endless dream with no sense of accomplishment. Indefinite goals often have "er" words. I want to X better, faster, smaller, cheaper. No good. Better enough to do what? Exactly how fast, small, cheaper?

2. It has an absolute direction, a specific purpose. If 1 was the y axis, 2 is the x. Before you know how well or much progress is needed to make you feel satisfied, you need to know what it is exactly that you will need accomplishment in. For example, greatness on the violin will require a narrower goal and thus more targeted practice than the vague desire to be in an orchestra.

For the second paragraph, true. Society is a series of arbitrary hoops to jump through. On this, hypocrisy as a point of pride is advantageous as it allows for quick assimilation into whatever ridiculous means is needed for the individual's end.

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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by VixensVengeance on Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:04 pm

Yes I understand what you are saying and I agree. I think you are misunderstanding my point though. I was trying to say that the measure of success can never come from an external source. Even when we submit ourselves to another's authority. When we do allow the measure of success to come from an external authority that is when it becomes detrimental because that measure is a wholly subjective measure.

Take your example of the violin. I want to master the violin. What does that mean? To play "row row your boat" or to play Beethoven. You may consider mastery that I could play Beethoven but I might consider mastery as row row your boat. Who is right? Of course the one who is undertaking the pursuit. Only they can measure the level of success they want to achieve and in that scenario it doesn't matter what others think.

Take that same sort of thing in a different situation, say I want to take a college class, Algebra. What is the measure of success there? In that case I submit myself to the authority of anothers standard to achieve success. If I pass that class according to that standard I am successful. However that still does not mean I cant also set my own standard of success. I can either feel it is enough to just get past the tests and just make it though or I could set a standard that I want to actually master the material in such a way that I could teach the course when done. And what if I dont want the grade at all but I audit the class. In that case I still sacrifice for the class but there is no testing challenge. However if I just want a basic knowledge of the material or need to review I have still been successful in my goal even though I failed to meet the standard set by the course.

My point is that in any scenario when I pursue a goal it is up to me alone to set that goal and then achieve that goal to a standard I personally define for myself. Sometimes that involves the acceptance of an external standard in addition to my internal measure. But the final say is always mine. And anytime any other tries to tell me I have not achieved something I have set, or are incapable of achieving something because they have decided the goal I have set is not worthy of success, or incapable of success due to some parameter they have set, that is an attack that should never go unanswered.
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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by David on Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:09 pm

Right. That's why it's my job to walk you into your own noose rather than distributing nooses.

No one great was ever vague. Do you want, greatness? Great here is defined by having an eclipse wherein your best becomes definitive, authoritative, text-book for those learning behind you.

Greatness isn't for everyone. Some just want their best potential, and that's fine too. Your effort on time management and perfection can be applied to either; it's just that you've never specified.

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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by VixensVengeance on Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:48 pm

Wait a minute... What? Eclipse? What have I never specified? You have lost me?
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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by David on Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:54 pm

VixensVengeance wrote:Wait a minute... What? Eclipse? What have I never specified? You have lost me?
Specifically what you want. You played the I'm already successful card. That's fine... except you also exhibit symptoms of someone who wants more. And that's great!... Except you never said what you want more of.

An eclipse (my personal definition here) occurs when the will of an individual blots out the will of the established authority within any given field. It is a revolution.

Who do you think of when I say: science, art, beauty, fitness? These are gods. And you can be one too via an eclipse in whatever you're into. Earl Scruggs ran out of notes so he added a string to the banjo. His name means bluegrass, and bluegrass is what it is because of him. They are inseparable.

I think of Albert Einstein, M. C. Escher, Helen of Troy, and Arnold Schwarzenegger. They have all, in their own way, personally embodied the epitome of their arenas. Would you be wrong in thinking: Tesla, Prince, Monroe, or Bruce Lee? Nope. I also know who they are, and their greatness cannot be denied.

The question on the table is what do want to be remembered for? That's the question each and every member of the DA must hold themselves to answering.

Standards? There really isn't but one. Saying you don't want to be the best is like saying you don't have time to practice or a few bucks for earthquake victims. We all want to be best, but we're unwilling to do what it takes.

Except for that thing we're passionate about. For it, we will do what it takes. So, the path is clear.

1) what do want?
2) run with it.

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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by VixensVengeance on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:20 am

I think I'm beginning to understand. This is what I want, I want to know what the philosophy of a dark sider is, what drives them, what fuels them, why they do what they do and how they think. It’s hard to make a claim to a title when you don't know what that title really means. I want to know what it means. I want to claim the title but first I have to know why I'm claiming it. That is my passion. Once I have mastered that it can be applied to any other aspect of my life.

Sure I have told you I'm successful and I still feel that, but I want to know why I'm successful. Or more to the point, why I consider myself successful and can I do more, is there more? Where is that cutting edge and how do you know when you have lost it. Honestly for me this year has been a year of crisis. I have always been driven, focused, exceeding of expectations, a natural leader in most things I undertake because I am more passionate about my pursuits than anyone else around me. By my limited understanding of what it means to be a dark sider I think I am a natural one.

But for some reason this year has been different. I have lost focus, lost interest in most of my pursuits. I have become idle and lackadaisical and distracted. I feel burned out and directionless. My drive is gone, my interest is gone. I want to know why and I want to know exactly what it was that drove me before. Just my insight, but I feel that I was such a natural dark sider that I never really thought about what that meant. Now it’s gone and I need to reconnect with it. That is my desire, my passion, I want that back! I need that back. It’s what defined me as a person and I’m lost without it. I need to understand it so I can reignite that inside me.
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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by David on Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:08 pm

That was your most valuable post yet. It's open and honest, and I thank you.

Darkness is, in its purest forms, not an intellectual endeavor. The philosophy isn't what makes us dark, it makes us more efficient. Think back to grabbing the hot handle of a cast iron skillet  (or similar). Recall the urgency within the reflex of withdrawing your hand. That was darkness. For less than a second an impulse titled "oh shit" rocked it's way through your psyche into conscious thought. Nobody existed - or if they did they were irrelevant. Everything was irrelevant compared to the pain. Even your various body parts, their only purpose for existence was to serve as resource in the preservation of beloved hand. We are the hand, Vix. And nothing else matters.

Sentience. What does it mean? The ability to feel pain. I ouch therefore I am.

As you can imagine, initiating someone into darkness is a lot like talking someone into being an asshole. It is, for a while. Most people go around kicking anything that isn't bolted down and setting fire to everything that is for awhile. They get their belly full and delight in the freedom that only darkness can give them. That is, until they see the cost of their antics. They've hurt friends, lost loves, killed projects, and shut doors. Sooo, being self serving doesn't match the brochure. We are not islands unto ourselves. Other people matter because we matter.

And so the pattern of self centeredness continues while every element in your life is reevaluated in its relevance to your benefit.

The guiding question, always, is: does this act/thought/whatever serve me? It's best to consider the big picture on returned profit, as others are often served in order to be served ourselves.

Lastly - *F* the code. Do what you want even if it cuts across every philosophic grain you're aware of. Remember, even the philosophy is there to serve you. If it is not advantageous to use it, then abandon it and fly your jolly roger without hesitation or regret.

Second paragraph - there's always more, or something else. The mind loves nothing more than to be fascinated; the heart leaves its strings laying about with hopeful intention; and, the soul longs to be stirred. One might say that's what they live for.

Third paragraph - I know exactly what you mean. Bad news is that it's time to get burned. There's no need to hit rock bottom; remember - scar pride is the sport of idiots. There is a learning curve for the rest of us. But, you must do without something, endure some hardship, feel some loss for your inattentiveness. I trust you can devise a suitable punishment that will help you to remember what it was like to be hungry. The first few chapters of Necronomicon The Wanderings of Alhazred are very relevant to your predicament.

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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by Micheal on Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:53 am

Mindset plays a role here as well.  The concept of "If you believe A or B... you're right". 

Example, I have a 69 year old orange belt in my dojo.  I was telling him how another I know... who is in his 70's, saw him working out at the dojo and thought perhaps he should join.  To which the 69 year old made two interesting perspectives available to me.

1.  His philosophy of learning the style was that it was cheaper to be active then to pay the medical bills for inactivity.

2.  If not at 70... then when?

The point being, here is a 69 year old guy who by the way... I don't like being kicked by him... that is simply doing.

And yet it is not a far reach to say he is a minority... and it is all due to mindset.

My preference is to be kept too busy to think about how this or that is going.  Always am I looking at what is here in front of me and beyond... for when I do not... I DO look back more then I really want.

You are a doer.  As long as you know everything is solveable (once again, if this is true or not... you're right).  Then it is just a matter of resolving it.

You experience burnout... why?  Then solve it.

This is where the methodology of the jedi comes into play.

LEARN!!!  Everything and anything about a given subject.
As you do, you will find that those things you wish to learn will just start falling into your lap to learn. 

Apply what you learn.

I grew up knowing I could expect my first heart attack at 36 (standard age of males in my family).  Here I am 47 and nothing yet... don't intend to either.  But this is because I learned 2 truths...

1.  Water (take your body weight, cut it in half, and this is how many fluid ounces you should drink over a period of a day).

2.  Vitamin C (exceed the recommended allowance to 2000mg... 10000mg + when you are sick, (2k increments every 2 hours, any more and it will flush out of your system).

Everything is solveable if you just decide it IS in fact solveable, and then never give up until you solve it to your satisfaction.

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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by VixensVengeance on Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:50 pm

Thank you, and thanks for your PMs Micheal. You have both given me a lot to think about and I am going to take a day or two and process it.
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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by Micheal on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:09 pm

Absolutely!  Any help I can be, I am glad to do it!

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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by David on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:57 pm

VixensVengeance wrote:Thank you, and thanks for your PMs Micheal. You have both given me a lot to think about and I am going to take a day or two and process it.
Jedi take a day or two. What does your gut say?

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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by VixensVengeance on Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:24 pm

David wrote:
VixensVengeance wrote:Thank you, and thanks for your PMs Micheal. You have both given me a lot to think about and I am going to take a day or two and process it.
Jedi take a day or two. What does your gut say?


I know exactly what it says, that is not the issue. Actually admitting to those truths are another. I am strongly independant and self willed. With those traits its very hard to admit you need help sometimes and even harder to actually let yourself be vulnerable enough to accept that help.
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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by David on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:51 pm

Oh lord yes, implementation takes some time. I thought you meant it would take two days to know what you think about it.

They say the dark side is the fast way. In some regards it is. We don't need perspective from an external source. Use one, if it cranks your tractor, but we lack foundational canon, authoritative documents, and in general a reason why. Why ask why? They call it learning. We call it procrastination. Jedi love to wrap their minds around a thing before they commit to action. How about this why - why is only hindsight 20/20? Because nothing beats experience. Good ol' fashion empirical data. One could grow a beard and die without having lived if they set into speculating what life might be like.

Or... They could rip off their shirts to feel vitality coursing through their veins while knowing we will never be here again.

If I had died writing this, I would have had a full life. It tickles me f'n pink that I didn't. I really do feel like each second I live is stolen from death.

"It's never too late to get it back" - Lester Burnham

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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by VixensVengeance on Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:29 pm

As a follower of the dark.... No thats not right.  I think you are either dark or not...


As one who is dark, I think for the first time in my life, I am scared of that dark.  And thats not really accurate either. I have always been scared of the dark because thats what drives us forward. Not all of us but those of the dark that need to see whats there. Anything less is stagnation and eventual death for us. But for the first time I'm truly terrified... to the point of stagnation. Those things in our lives we use as anchors to ground us are important as we delve Into those dark places. My last anchor left me when my father died ths year. My daddy was my shore, my shelter in any storm and for the first time I feel lost, without him there.


Last edited by VixensVengeance on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by VixensVengeance on Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:37 pm

And yes I know, I'm a hypocritical bitch... deal with it.
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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by David on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:11 pm

We all are, and I have.

There are philosophers in every aspect, that was the distinction.

When all else fails, take another breath. When in paralysis, just put one foot in front of the other. I know of no consolation for loss of loved ones that outweigh negative lingering side effects from their usage. That part will just take time as it is processed.

Dealing specifically with your chaos and order, you will find it more rewarding to realize that you are the storm rather than seeking out quiet places within it.

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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by VixensVengeance on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:42 pm

Hmm yes I get what you say. I don't look to you for sympathy or consolation of my pain. Those things are mine and mine alone. I will deal with them as I see fit and I would resent you if you tried to take them from me. Most never get this and I think one of the reasons I was drawn to this place is because my perception is that you undersand that.

I am that storm. I want to be that only storm. My pains and my victories, both will drive that. That ebb and flow are irrelevant. The eventual build to excellence is the goal. I will be the only perfect storm. That is my destiny, how I get there is my journey.
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Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Post by Micheal on Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:10 am

No one can take your pain away.  It is yours and makes you who you are. 

Having a dad that I fear loosing every day, I can understand the pain of that loss.  I fear what my dads loss will do to me. 

But I have to speculate on one difference... that being that I am now his anchor instead of he being mine.

To be clear, it is more a mutual thing, we anchor eachother. 

Needless to say... its quite the juxtaposition isn't it?

Some things we just take for granted within our lives... only to have them no longer be there, leaving the hole that is left by their absence... I believe this is the darkness you speak of.

It leaves you 1 of 2 choices. 

1.  Continue to fear the dark and wallow.
2.  Be the storm he raised you to be.

And by 2, I have to ask you a question.  And I mean this in all seriousness and do not mean any negative connotations to be hurtful.

Which is stronger, the storm or the rock which the storm cannot blow away?

I have used the Maelstrom metaphor many times in my life.  I can be a force of nature when called to be...

But from that position, I can also be the gentle hand which leaves me being a soft touch when my 7- year old girls at my dojo come up to give me a hug.  (Their was a reason I did not have girls of my own). 

Are you being that which no one can harm so you can no longer be harmed or is it there if needed, but you can be free to be who you are meant to be?

You see... I get that perspective of being as hard as steel to deter anyone away who would harm you.  To this day... the best revenge I ever got on my X wife was to simply live my life.

To love to my fullest.
To do what I want to do.

To dismiss her from my life.

All too often, we go from love to hate... the problem with both is they require another.

Which means those who teach us to be loving or hateful still take up residence in our lives.

For those we love this is easy and understandable.

But it is difficult to see this about those we hate.  But of the two, this one is more difficult.

Look, I am not saying to stop... I myself have a few people in my life that I would rend if I did not loose more then I would gain.

Recognize in order to keep that hate going... you have to work on it.

Apathy is the opposite of love.

Love your dad.  Respect his legacy (which is you by the way).  He will always be there, all you have to do is ask yourself, 'What would dad do' and he will be there.

For me... I choose to be the rock.  Calm through anything, but harmful when catapulted (I am no small pebble... gibralter pays homage to me).

Hate is the moss which grows on my exterior.  Useless except for its own needs.

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