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Mother Earth a living Planet

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RE VixensVengeance ( Mother Earth a living planet Planet )

Post by Dragonmaster on Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:35 am

How I vote has nothing to do you you. That is why voting is done in secret because it is my business who I vote for and I have a right to keep that secret. I have never missed voting in an election since I reached the age of majority when I was given the right to vote. It is actually inappropriate to ask another person how they vote. Personally out of respect for another persons right to keep their personal politics and how they vote private and secret I do not ask.

Secondly when I do not know what country you are from and you have no idea where I am from or the political parties I have to pick from or what their platform is when it comes to the environment or the regulations and or laws they have passed or not passed. You should not have made any assumptions of my country of origin and political beliefs?

Now to be honest. I can not remember their ever being an environmental issue that was a political issue during an election. but I am certain that in the next election I vote in economics and the environment are going to be important political issues that the parties I can vote for will be running on.

Now this election will force me to decide to either vote for a party that is highly motivated by environmental stewardship regardless of the economic cost or a party that is more concerned about economics and less concerned about the environment.
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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by Micheal on Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:03 am

For VV... he is not from the US.  I personally lean more toward him being British... but I will not discard the possibility of being a cannuck.

However, he would fall into the Jill Stein category and would have voted for Clinton given the direction of his posting and Jill's simple inability to win.

It is appropriate to ask someone who they voted for.  I voted for Donald Trump.  I appreciate that you care about our opinions so much that you fear stating who you supported.  If it was not obvious before I posted this as to who I supported, its healthy for you to start laying out those pre-conceptions so you can work through them.

Once again... and at this point I have to wonder how many times I am going to have to point this out to you... this is a discussion board.  What is and is not appropriate is decided by those who post here... not one individual who decides.  We discuss for the sake of discussion.  We form opinions about one another regardless of what is said.  Knowledge simply allows others to form more accurate opinions.

You could have gone many ways in response... but please refrain from telling others what is and is not appropriate upon this web site.

Your venue is to present it to Mortrox and ask her to present it as such where it would then be decided upon.  Not to dictate from the comfort of your swivel chair what is and is not.

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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by VixensVengeance on Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:34 am

Regardless I am capable of deciphering the politics of another country just as much as the country I live in. This strange proclivity to keep everything a big secret just eludes logic. Why are you here if you don't want to discuss things openly? This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, please don't waste my time if your not willing to defend your views or discuss things without paranoid delusion DM.

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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by Luciana on Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:57 pm

VixensVengeance wrote:Regardless I am capable of deciphering the politics of another country just as much as the country I live in. This strange proclivity to keep everything a big secret just eludes logic. Why are you here if you don't want to discuss things openly? This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, please don't waste my time if your not willing to defend your views or discuss things without paranoid delusion DM.

He's not wasting your time. 

You're wasting your own time by responding to things you view as a waste of time. 

And you're giving away your power, if you're giving him the ability to waste your time for you. 

You enjoy the drama though, don't you? So is it really a waste of your time to engage in it?

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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by VixensVengeance on Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:58 pm

Luciana wrote:
He's not wasting your time. 

You're wasting your own time by responding to things you view as a waste of time. 

And you're giving away your power, if you're giving him the ability to waste your time for you. 

You enjoy the drama though, don't you? So is it really a waste of your time to engage in it?


You are absolutely right of course. Always one to call me on bullshit, but there is a deeper motivation. Im practicing being a challenger and not a persecutor. So while it' not a waste of my time actually, I am playing that role so that I may hone those skills.

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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by Luciana on Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:48 pm

VixensVengeance wrote:
You are absolutely right of course. Always one to call me on bullshit, but there is a deeper motivation. Im practicing being a challenger and not a persecutor. So while it' not a waste of my time actually, I am playing that role so that I may hone those skills.

Ah, how fun!

Watch your language, then - "Don't waste my time" is an accusatory/ judgmental statement. A better phrase would be to simply say, "I'm not going to waste my time if..." 

Thus you retain the power and remove yourself from the position of accuser/ judge. 

Carry on, enjoy...

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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by VixensVengeance on Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:39 pm

Good point. Thanks!

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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by Dragonmaster on Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:03 pm

VixensVengeance wrote:Regardless I am capable of deciphering the politics of another country just as much as the country I live in. This strange proclivity to keep everything a big secret just eludes logic. Why are you here if you don't want to discuss things openly? This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, please don't waste my time if your not willing to defend your views or discuss things without paranoid delusion DM.

This thread is about ( Mother earth living Planet ) and not about my personal politics or voting habits. If we had a political thread here and I entered it and gave my comments. I dare say, I would be expected to discuss my politics openly and I would at that point. I prefer to keep my politics private as far as who I vote for and why. If we had a political thread here I would not be involved in the conversation.
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RE Micheal ( Mother Earth a living planet Planet )

Post by Dragonmaster on Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:24 pm

Micheal.

It is appropriate to ask someone who they voted for.  I voted for Donald Trump.  I appreciate that you care about our opinions so much that you fear stating who you supported.  If it was not obvious before I posted this as to who I supported, its healthy for you to start laying out those pre-conceptions so you can work through them.

DM
Now to be honest I had never given it any thought as to who you supported politically or your religious affiliations or what country your in.
As to your gender? Who knows.

Micheal.
You could have gone many ways in response... but please refrain from telling others what is and is not appropriate upon this web site.

Your venue is to present it to Mortrox and ask her to present it as such where it would then be decided upon.  Not to dictate from the comfort of your swivel chair what is and is not.

Ty for the information.
Is this offense enough to get me banished from this site?
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RE VixensVengeance ( Mother Earth a living planet Planet )

Post by Dragonmaster on Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:42 pm

VixensVengeance wrote:Regardless I am capable of deciphering the politics of another country just as much as the country I live in. This strange proclivity to keep everything a big secret just eludes logic. Why are you here if you don't want to discuss things openly? This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, please don't waste my time if your not willing to defend your views or discuss things without paranoid delusion DM.
 
Now some things I know are not to be discussed all. I will not and can not discuss them. I have signed documents that prevent me from doing so. I do not intent to spend time in prison. If you have any issues with that go talk to Mortox about it. Mortox is aware of my situation anyway.

My belief is that how I vote is private and confidential and I will not ask you either.
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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by David on Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:55 pm

The hypocrites send themselves down Logan's run when they use electricity and electronic devices to speak about pollution.

Here are the people that care about the environment:

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/mar/1/dakota-access-protest-camp-crews-haul-48-million-p/

And this is irony:

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RE David ( Mother Earth a living planet Planet )

Post by Dragonmaster on Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:03 pm

You complain about open strip lithium mines and the oil sands but you leave out mountain topping for easy access to the coal and all the damage that does.why?

Lets be honest protesters are irresponsible but that is not the problem. The issue is protest groups are run by professional groups and seeing these professional groups are registered non profits that receive grants and and donations from individuals and corporations, they should be fines or sued by the government and forced to pay for damages and clean up after the protest is over.
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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by Dragonmaster on Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:05 pm



A new report shows the Ontario government knew nearly 30 years ago that a mill site upstream from Grassy Narrows First Nation was contaminated with mercury.
"There's a continued liability on the province," Grassy Narrows chief Simon Fobister said. "They said it's going to clear itself up, but they never informed us that there's still mercury in the soil and they were aware of it."
"We'll consider all our options right now, whether it's political or legal."
The confidential report was done by True Grit Consulting in 2016; the firm was tasked with determining whether mercury is still leaching into the Wabigoon River from the nearby Dryden mill site, which is located upstream from Grassy Narrows, where residents have shown signs of mercury poisoning for decades.

Mercury visible in soil at site

The report was independently reviewed by CBC News.
The report states that the Ontario government was informed about visible mercury in the soil at the site as early as 1990, and that 2016 data is insufficient to determine with any certainty if mercury is still present and leaching into the river. True Grit recommends a followup investigation.

  • Report suggesting mercury still leaking near Grassy Narrows 'deeply concerning,' chief says
  • New generation suffering mercury poisoning at Grassy Narrows, Ont.
  • Children of the poisoned river
  • 'Guilt' drives former Dryden, Ont. mill worker to reveal his part in dumping toxic mercury

"Very disappointed that the Ontario government hasn't continued monitoring the leakage of mercury at the old Dryden mill," said Fobister. "We've always been informed that the mercury is contained, but to our surprise, according to this report, mercury is still in the soil and leaching into the river."
"We have been misinformed by the ministry."
The mercury issue goes back decades, with reports that Reed Paper dumped several tons of mercury into the Wabigoon River in the 1960s and 1970s (the mill is currently operated by Domtar, which purchased the site in 2007 and commissioned the True Grit report).
The elevated mercury levels in the river led to mercury poisoning among residents of downstream Indigenous communities, Grassy Narrows First Nation and Wabaseemoong Independent Nations, who consumed fish caught in the Wabigoon River.
Research done by Japanese experts shows that more than 90 per cent of the population in the communities show signs of mercury poisoning.

Drums of contaminated soil removed

The True Grit report states that in 1990, mercury was observed in the soil beneath the mill's chemical plant building as repairs were being made to a floor there. The Ontario Ministry of the Environment — currently the Ministry of the Environment and Climate Change (MOECC) — was notified, and conducted an inspection.
Sampling was conducted and 35 drums of mercury-contaminated soil was removed. Further testing showed that contaminated soil remained in the area in amounts that exceeded MOECC criteria for cleanup activities, but further excavation was not considered feasible.
The MOECC subsequently said that no further excavation would be needed, provided:

  • an excavation policy be developed
  • the contaminated area be registered with the land titles office
  • a plastic barrier be installed between the contaminated soil and clean backfill, and
  • a study be undertaken to estimate the amount of mercury present.

The True Grit study states that "it appears that these requests were largely addressed by December 1991."

Two potential contamination sources

The study identifies the contaminated soil found in 1990 as one potential source of ongoing mercury contamination of the Wabigoon River. Monitoring wells were installed in the vicinity; some of them have shown elevated levels of mercury, although data is only available for certain years.
- Simon Fobisher, chief of Grassy Narrows wrote:'It's affecting the health of our people, and also it destroyed our commercial fishing and tourist operations'
For example, sampling from some wells showed elevated mercury levels from 1999-2006, then testing stopped. The report does note that the mercury levels in the wells were generally decreasing during those years.
The second potential source is a former effluent ditch, where "mercury-contaminated effluent was discharged before entering the Wabigoon River in the 1970s."
The ditch was closed and sealed in 1977 or 1978, and its precise location is unknown. No monitoring wells were installed in the ditch, the report says.

Socio-economic damage to Grassy Narrows

"How many generations of our children are going to be affected by it?" Fobister said. "It's affecting the health of our people, and also it destroyed our commercial fishing and tourist operations."
"There's a lot of socio-economic damage to our community."
Overall, the report states that generally, True Grit found that available historical data indicates elevated levels of mercury were present in groundwater on the mill site, particularly around the former chemical plant building.
However, the available data is limited, and "it is not presently possible to make a firm conclusion" whether or not mercury is still leaching into the Wabigoon River.
True Grit recommended a supplemental investigation be conducted, one that would include the review of existing background information, a site inspection, the drilling of boreholes to facilitate the installation of new monitoring wells, and the collection of soil samples.
In June, the province announced an $85-million cleanup of mercury near Grassy Narrows First Nation and Wabaseemoong Independent Nations.

Fobister meeting with cabinet ministers

Fobister will be also be meeting with provincial and federal cabinet members at the end of November, and will be speaking with them about the report.
MOECC representatives couldn't immediately be reached for comment.








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90 per cent of Wabaseemoong First Nation show signs of mercury poisoning.

Post by Dragonmaster on Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:22 pm

Ontario premier says she never received Grassy Narrows mercury report

Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne speaks at the closing news conference at the First Ministers meeting in Ottawa on Tuesday, Oct.3, 2017. (THE CANADIAN PRESS / Sean Kilpatrick)

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Allison Jones, The Canadian Press
Published Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:35PM EST
Last Updated Wednesday, November 15, 2017 4:05PM EST
TORONTO -- Ontario's government has had a report in hand about mercury contamination upstream from the Grassy Narrows First Nation for more than a year, but the premier says she didn't see it.
Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation Minister David Zimmer said this week the report was received by the government in September 2016. But it apparently never made its way to Premier Kathleen Wynne.
"We are not sure exactly how that information hadn't made it to my desk, but we're asking that question," Wynne said Wednesday. "It is always a concern if we don't have the information that we need to make good decisions."

Related Stories


  • PM under fire for saying Grassy Narrows 'very much' Ontario's responsibility
  • Philpott: Ontario to spearhead Grassy Narrows mercury contamination efforts
  • Environmental group finds mercury in soil upstream from Grassy Narrows community
  • Ontario spending $85M to clean up mercury in First Nations
  • Ont. First Nation declares emergency over unsafe drinking water

Photos


A beach in Grassy Narrows First Nation is shown. (grassynarrows.ca)
Zimmer said the report was received by the Ministry of the Environment, though he was unsure of whether it was also received by his ministry. He would "not categorize it as a communications breakdown," he said.
"Ministries do not keep the premier of the day in the dark," Zimmer said.

Mercury contamination has plagued the English-Wabigoon River system in northwestern Ontario for half a century, since a paper mill in Dryden, Ont., dumped 9,000 kilograms of the substance into the river systems in the 1960s.

Researchers have previously reported that more than 90 per cent of the people in Grassy Narrows and Wabaseemoong First Nation show signs of mercury poisoning.

The Toronto Star reported last week on a 2016 report by an environmental consulting firm for the mill's current owner, Domtar, that showed the contamination continued to linger for decades and likely still does, despite repeated assurances from public officials over the years that there was no ongoing source of mercury in the river.

The Ontario government announced in June that it would spend $85 million to remediate the mercury contamination, months after a report commissioned by the Grassy Narrows community suggested there was ongoing contamination.

Grassy Narrows Chief Simon Fobister said he believes Wynne.

"She's the only premier in Ontario that has committed to this clean-up although we have been demanding it for years," he said.
Fobister said, however, that the community has met with top bureaucrats from the province, adding it is disappointing they were not upfront about its knowledge of contamination dating back to 1990.
"It seemed like we had to scratch and claw to find out, you know, what is really going on," he said. "The bureaucracy works in mysterious ways. What they know doesn't necessarily mean their political masters know."
Judy DaSilva, the environmental co-ordinator for Grassy Narrows who says she suffers effects of mercury contamination, believes Wynne may not have read the report, but top advisers must have been aware.
"They should have told us," she said. "It is not all on her... We are used to people not treating us like humans, that we are not worth it."
The situation in the community has been grossly mishandled, DaSilva added, noting Ottawa has also turned a blind eye.
"Maybe now it is time for them to step in," she said.
Wynne also urged the federal government to work with Ontario on a compensation fund.
"I think this latest report points to the need for additional activity, apart from what we're doing in terms of cleaning up the river, but there needs to be the federal government, the First Nation, the provincial government (and) Health Canada sitting at the table to determine what the next steps should be," she said.
New Democrat Charlie Angus joined Fobister in pressing the federal Liberal government to build a mercury treatment centre for the area.
"Mr. Prime Minister, we cannot change the institutional negligence of the past, but we are morally bound to find ways to remediate and offer credible steps of reconciliation," Angus wrote to Justin Trudeau.
"The creation of a long-term treatment centre for the people of Grassy Narrows would be a first step on the path to cleaning up this environmental disaster."
A spokeswoman for the federal Indigenous Services minister said the government is "participating in exploratory discussions" with Grassy Narrows, Wabaseemoong Independent Nations and provincial partners to reform the Mercury Disability Board.
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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by VixensVengeance on Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:26 pm

Have you ever considered the idea that the extinction of the human race is what would bring the planet back to your perception of equilibrium?

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RE VixensVengeance ( Mother Earth a living planet Planet )

Post by Dragonmaster on Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:14 pm

Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

 by VixensVengeance Today at 11:26 pm
Have you ever considered the idea that the extinction of the human race is what would bring the planet back to your perception of equilibrium?



This from the sixth post I wrote


Why can we not live in harmony with the other species without making them extinct as well as our-selves?


Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view. This has been my opinion since 1985.


I don't believe in equilibrium for the planet. I do believe that the planet is composed of numerous complex intertwined ecological systems that are far beyond our ability to comprehend. I think if we lived in harmony on the planet and believed in doing no harm to the planet. We just might be better off.

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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by David on Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:19 pm

No, complaining is for bitches. I am presenting information. The honest truth is that no one cares about solving the issue, the just want to bitch so that they feel they've done their part. What a curious sense of cause and effect they have!

Another example. School superintendent will not allow armed police or metal detectors because it looks bad for the school. Meanwhile, unarmed security is hushed from singling out children that seem troubled and could become threats. Bullying continues and is overlooked or treated on a case by case basis.

Then, when a kid snaps and shoots a dozen classmates everyone is confused on why and how it happened. The answer? Tell the children guns did it and have them missing more class time to stand outside in the open chanting stop the violence.

Would you detect my sarcasm if I said NRA members get their giggles when kids shoot kids? Most of them have children. Meanwhile the anti-gun rhetoric spewed by idiot liberal teachers has done it's dirty work when police are called to the school and some booger eater calls 911 because there is a man with a gun in his school.

All that insanity aside, if anyone actually gave a shit they'd have conversations with their children on including nerds and goths into the fold. They'd organize neighborhood cookouts. They would actually apply force to the cause of the problem.

Again. Get exercise, get nutrition, get sleep. That's preventative healthcare at it's finest. But no, bitches want trinkets to rally behind, miracle pills to negate their laziness, and 1) access to the public so they vent their frustrations under the guise of raising awareness when they're young, and 2) a tax deductible charity to throw money at when they're older to anesthetize the overwhelming sensation of a life wasted bitching.

Point. How has anything said thus far changed the world? None. Could it? No. Why? Lifestyle. The factor that always plagues liberal initiatives is cost. What are you personally willing to do to make the world a cleaner place?

The stuff you already do? That's status quo. Cause and effect. What more are you willing to do? How about the person across from you on the subway? Think he cares? What about the businessman who makes a fortune shipping garbage and medical waste to third world countries. He might turn off the water while he brushes his teeth. BUT WHY?

Because he's not an idiot and knows that it is in his best interest to do so. So here is where nature's checks and balancing system works. When we have begun to destroy the planet in ways that affects us, then we will do something about it. So long polar bear, your evolutionary weakness was irrelevance.

And your point is?

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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by David on Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:21 pm

You seem rather opinionated about something you admit to having limited comprehension.

I call those ideals.

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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by VixensVengeance on Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:58 pm

Dragonmaster wrote:
VixensVengeance wrote:Regardless I am capable of deciphering the politics of another country just as much as the country I live in. This strange proclivity to keep everything a big secret just eludes logic. Why are you here if you don't want to discuss things openly? This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, please don't waste my time if your not willing to defend your views or discuss things without paranoid delusion DM.
 
Now some things I know are not to be discussed all. I will not and can not discuss them. I have signed documents that prevent me from doing so. I do not intent to spend time in prison. If you have any issues with that go talk to Mortox about it. Mortox is aware of my situation anyway.

My belief is that how I vote is private and confidential and I will not ask you either.


I work for the CIA as well so I know what you mean.

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RE David ( Mother Earth a living planet Planet )

Post by Dragonmaster on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:10 pm

Perhaps being humble and willing to admit you do not know everything about earths ecological systems and how the interact is far better than being a braggart about ones achievements or letting on that one knows more than one actually does. Perhaps I have done more and know more than I let on and just will not or can not talk about it.
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RE VixensVengeance ( Mother Earth a living planet Planet )

Post by Dragonmaster on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:13 pm

I know your trying to be insult me.
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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by David on Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:22 am

I point out discrepancies in logic, nothing more. The insult you feel is the feeling one gets when forced to confront their own BS. I am not without mine. The objective behind most topics is to refine your system of thought such that every piece acts coherently - even when they don't. I am not suggesting an actual truth exists, only that a plethora of dissonant combinations do.

Your premise that we are custodians of the planet is an assumption built upon the idea that we are somehow above or separate from nature. Call me a skeptic.

I think everything, including mankind, is functioning perfectly as it should. Yes, we very well could wipe out half the life on earth and cause our own extinction event. Can you not see how this could fit within the cycles of life in our planet's history?

Whatever keeps you going, hun. Just don't expect your reason to become everyone's reason. The DA is aspect of cultivating passions. Can you not understand how wrong it would be of me to instruct if I were dogmatic about any given passion?

So while I salute your fervor for a greener earth, attempt to reduce my footprint continuously, and am a livid supporter of the three R's - I cannot let that supersede the objectives of this institution.

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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by VixensVengeance on Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:55 pm

Dragonmaster wrote:I know your trying to be insult me.

Not at all, I just see no reason to be held to a nondisclosure or a secuity clearance or whatever that restricts some things you can say and yet still feel the need to actually mention that you can't talk about x or y subject. 

What is the purpose other than to make yourself look more important than you actually probably are? At the least it is a severe insecurity in yourself that would cause you to do this and at most an over inflated sense of self importance brought on by a lack of character. The only other option is you're just a troll that is lying to bring attention to what you are falsely presenting as a mysterious nature that is designed to prop up your argument. 

Oh I have proof that is being covered up but I cant talk about it.


[size=41]Any way you slice it, its a pathetic cry for attention and I find it sad[/size]

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Environmental Responsibility: What is it, and what does it mean?

Post by Dragonmaster on Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:31 pm

 Environmental Responsibility:  What is it, and what does it mean? 


 

"We have become, by the power of a glorious evolutionary accident called intelligence, the stewards of life's continuity on earth.  We did not ask for this role, but we cannot abjure it.  We may not be suited for it, but here we are."
Stephen Jay Gould, Harvard University (White, 1997).  


One of the major global trends affecting society is the growing call for environmental responsibility. 


Environmental responsibility refers to our responsibility to use natural resources carefully, minimize damage, and ensure these resources will be available for future generations.


In other words, we need to carry out our activities with sustainability in mind; not only environmental sustainability, but also economic and social sustainability, all of which are interrelated.


The call for environmental responsibility has arisen for a number of reasons:                                       



  • concern with increasing land degradation, including erosion, salinity, compaction, reduced soil microbial health, toxicity from pollutants.


     
  • the economic consequences of land degradation and reducing water quality, including lost income (income foregone) and the costs of reparation (repair).



Photo Courtesy of USDA

  • realisation of the limited availability of non-renewable global resources such as arable land, and competition for these resources.




  • questions about how production can meet the needs of an increasing population.




  • concerns with the impact of humans on global climate changes.



Source: European Communities, 1995-2001

  • the loss of biodiversity within our ecosystems.


     
  • fear of contamination and spread of disease.



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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

Post by Grey on Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:19 pm

This entire topic is a waste of server space in my opinion and I am entirely confused why it is as popular as it is. If you care about the environment, great. However, yapping endlessly about it on a Force Realism forum is not going to do anything productive in way of conservation or sustainability. 

Furthermore, while there is ample propaganda about how devastating human impact is on climate, conservation and overall ecological health, ask yourselves if any of that propaganda reflects reality. I did and it really does not.

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Re: Mother Earth a living Planet

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